OOC

[Dome]

I'm going to have to agree with Ren here. It seems you have something to say to and about everyone, and it rarely seems to be good. Granted that may be how it is in the military, but I'm not in the military. I didn't sign up for the military. I signed up to play a militar-esque adventure game. The thing with games is your supposed to enjoy them, and sadly I'm having a hard time now. Its almost to the point where I dread a new Tori or Janxi post. I'm hoping by pointing this out that something can be worked out so we can all play together, but as it is now, I don't see it lasting.

[dakota]

Allright, in case you all haven't noticed, but my posting rate has been slower on this game. Why? because all this contant in fighting and bickering drives me nuts. I'm at the point that I'm not sure if this is something I want to continue if things don't soon change..

I want some feedback here

[Renekin Skywalker]

I would be more than happy to keep going in the game. Socrates has potential for fun.

However, this whole thing about some players trying to act like this is some kind of Airborne unit is hurling it down the drain. If the game is to continue, players have to be willing to dump all this hyper-real-this-is-how-it's-really-done stuff, and dump the idea of the automatic hating of one kind of person/group/behaviour.

Also, Tori needs to keep in mind that Dakota defines the reality, just has he was reminded that the players control their own PCs a little while ago.

Actually, it occurs to me (thought not a military scholar) wouldn't someone like Tori the PC be restrained from active field duty until she received counselling for her racist predjudice against dogs? Also, on that matter, wouldn't characters like Tori and Janxi simply be shuffled around commands because they are too hard to control and no commander wanted them?

In hindsight, I think, Colonel Wallace should have known better. Well that and (sorry to say, Sasq) sending someone with no field experience on a covert mission.

[sasqaricious]

No need to apologize. I too have similar concerns but lucked out when Dak's came on last night and shared mine then. But so it is here my concerns were identical.

[Dome]

This is my first foray into Rifts. I like the game, I like where it could go. The prospect of going behind enemy lines and fighting or covertly coming back out.

I want the game to continue, and I am willing to do or try whatever is necessary to keep it going.

[Tori]

Alright. I took the ROLE in role play to be meaning we are playing a role. I like realism in RPG's and in addition to using my own experiences, do extensive research on characters, an environment, or read extensive fantasy fiction of an appropriate genre to better prepare and play them. That said, I am really sorry this is all being taken out of character and has to be discussed out of character. It was never personal.

To explain Tori a bit better. She IS prepared to like everyone, but you cannot turn around and make your character the team informant, and expect to be well liked. She has not prejudice against dogs, just dogs who appoint themselves as assistant team leaders. She resents his condescending ways especially toward her and Janxi. To them, he is not just a dog, but a grunt. The cats believe they have more training and are likely to rely on that. They would resent anyone of equal rank and lesser training lording over them.

To suggest racial counseling for a coalition soldier almost seems comical in light of the CS' overall attitude. Again, I point out this is not a wide-spread dislike, but a personal one.

Individuals like them in U.S. Naval Special Warfare would not be misfits. They would be on a team with thick-skinned individuals, who knew this was just "male bonding." Rather than fear and loathing, they would get an enemy to channel their aggression towards. Teams bond on mother-jokes and calling each other every name under the sun. If there is no enemy around, they needle one another with jibes, taunts and insults. Sometimes fights break out, but it's mostly to alleviate boredom. When push comes to shove, members of the team rally around one another.

When we get to the swamp, you all will see Tori and Janxi risking themselves to help the team, and fighting the fiercest to protect everyone, including Socrates. It was a trait that would have come out as soon as danger arose. Y'all may not like them, but will learn in short order they are loyal, and very dangerous to the opposition.

Furthermore, they are cats, and convinced the world is there to worship them. Dogs have owners, cats have staff. =^.^=

To Dome: I am especially sorry you took personal offense to the realism of our characters. We rather think you're a good player. Liz's cat-in-heat post was just a tease, sort of to show the cats are kinda juvenile. Liz said she was going to get Janxi to tease you a little more, until Socrates came along with a lecture.

Same for you Sasq. I wasn't trying to throw your character around earlier. It was tori's way of being a gentleman. I really didn't want to offend you for that, and am sorry.

In short, yes, I want to keep playing. You don't want the macho stuff, or the realistic dialogue, that's cool. I'll knock it off. I really can't see a cat and a SEAL being comfortable or friendly to anyone, dog, Wolfen, human or pixie to a character of the same rank, who condescends, backstabs, and informs to win favor. I'll agree to stop the aggression however, but I would not count the cats as friendly unless Socrates accepts them as well trained and professional soldiers.

We'll keep on as long as you'll have us. I'm with Dome, insurgency is a blast, and we're willing to keep the realism to a minimum, same with taunts.

[Tori]

Oh and as a post script: We took a fair amount of our character's behavior directly from the Lone Star supplement.

[Renekin Skywalker]

I don't recall Socrates ever doing anything under a motivation to curry favour from his human masters. Being his player and all.

Nor do I hear any of the other players making such a conclusion from Socrates' actions (unless that has simply gone unsaid by the other players).

So, you know, Socrates isn't sucking up to people, never was, never will. This would mean that Tori's automatic predjudice against him is based on a misconception. Poor kitty.

And, Socrates is quite reactive. He'll treat a soldier professionally when he sees a professional soldier. Even Shep was on Socrates' list of trouble makers in the very beginning.

[Mierin]

In hindsight, I think, Colonel Wallace should have known better. Well that and (sorry to say, Sasq) sending someone with no field experience on a covert mission.

I have to agree with this. I personally feel that Autumn is very ill-suited for a game like this.

I do enjoy the game and really like the character of Sam and would like to see it continue. And while I do appreciate a touch of realism in a game such as this, I do feel that it can get to the point where the game is so bogged down in trying to be realistic that it takes all the fun out of playing, which is where we are now.

I am also concerned that while Tori can 'ghost-write' for Janxi and log into her account, Janxi can't. if she is having that much problems logging in, she should try creating a new account.

[Tori]

I know you have offered to explain Socrates' habits to me out of character, but if I were to use that knowledge in-character, that would be some severe metagaming, and would disrupt the flow of the game. Suddenly, Tori goes from resentful to friendly would be quite a non sequitir. I never asked, because at this point, it would not help me to play my character. She feels insulted. Now, if Socrates approached Tori and explained himself, I think you would find Tori to not only be receptive, but more than willing to let bygones be bygones.

I can't, and DON'T speak for any other players, including Liz, unless she tells me to. Right now, my sister is at work, and doesn't know I'm even home yet. I am pointing out my character's perspective, only. It is not fair to argue that other people do not share my character's perspective when they play different characters with a different interaction with Socrates.

In Tori's experience, a warrior who reports on another soldier for something harmless, or even something harmful, is willing to sacrifice a fellow warrior to advance his own career. It would not be the same as reporting a helo pilot who came to the flight-line drunk off his head. Even then, most servicemen would recognize the pilot probably has severe PTSD. They might pull him to the side, and suggest he take sick call that day, and work on cleaning up, if only to save his career and reputation. The service is a brotherhood, that polices itself. Unless something is mission critical, like someone smoking a boat of crank before fastroping into Afghanistan, I can't see one warrior informing on another.

I've said before that you OOC had no way of knowing that I selected 'nipping as a harmless vice for Tori. Maybe Soc saw it as akin to hard drug abuse. Maybe he could make a simple inquiry after her outburst, about 'nip's affect on "evolved" cats, and make a discreet apology for informing. If he really thought it to be serious drug abuse, Tori would understand, and quickly forgive him.

Liz and I have seen Socrates try to assert himself over the cats, even though he has no standing. Everything they do, and I admit, some of it was over the top, gets them lectured. When he does not leave it to the CO or XO, they see Socrates as being lofty and belittling.

I'm a dog man, my girlfriend loves cats. My dog and her cat tend to compete for both dominance and affection. Sometimes, it might provoke a brief scuffle in the house. As our characters' standing in the pack is equal (in terms of rank), the cats see socrates as working to become a higher beta (with the lectures, intellectual superiority, catnip reporting) and resent his efforts. While you may be playing him as paternal and a guiding influence, I think a feline would see it a different way.

I would also submit that a trained Navy SEAL or Force Recon Marine would not see input from a basic infantryman as particularly helpful or especially welcome, given the length and intensity of a SEAL's training. I suppose you do mean it to be paternal, but at least to cats, it comes off as patronizing (sort of like that "Poor kitty" remark).

As I have said before, I'm promising to keep the surly disposition, interservice rivalry, taunts, insults, etc. to the nil. Tori's not going to lead the group in a round of Kum-Ba-Yah, but she isn't going to instigate with Socrates. I'll tell Lizard not to tease Autumn and Richardson for their flirtations. Again, I am sorry for everyone who took this out of character, as I never never once meant anything of that sort. I like to resolve differences in-character, as in the end, it strengthens, rather than weakens the group.

[Tori]

Thanks, Mierin. Liz said she tried to create a new account and was unable to interface with the board beyond a read-only capability. She dictates posts to me and gave me her password to post on her behalf. At the same time, she said if this was unsuitable to the admin, she would be more than happy to give up her character. Her own computer is out of service, and she uses my nephews. As he needs it for school, she is unwilling to install additional browsers, as she worries it might add a greater burden to an older processor. Again, she'll put Janx on the shelf if asked, to wait until she can play, cede her to me for the time being, or will allow a custodial player to run her, or the gm to use her as an NPC until such time as she can access the board.

As for realism, I guess, as a Tom Clancy fan, I thought realism adds an element of color to the story. I've been in lots of campaigns where my character walks through a dungeon that might as well have linoleum floors and florescent lighting. Some of my questions may be a bit beyond the scope of the GM's knowledge. I did grow a bit more technical than I should because it seemed simple questions went ignored for a time. I take great delight in planning the tactical elements of an RPG mission, and like Col. John "Hannibal" Smith, I love it when a plan comes together. A lot of my old game group in Florida were veterans of both Vietnam and Desert Storm. One of our GM's even made grids so we could call in airstrikes, and plan our ingress and egress. I know this is not nearly as realistic or detailed, but I still enjoy planning as a major part of character play. If y'all don't want me playing a salty sailor, I would ask that the leaders at least answer the simple questions so Tori knows what to prepare for.

[sasqaricious]

I have no qualms bowing out or making a new character. As I had talked to Dak's about it before, I was nut fully sure what I was to expect when I started, now knowing this I would definitely have changed what I did or made, but now after the fact am just going with it. I did write in the background that she was sent on this mission by Bradford as a way to "get her" out of the way. But either way I am cool with whatever decision is made!

[Renekin Skywalker]

So, if I understand it, to generalize, the conflict between Socrates and the cats will continue unless I can guess what Socrates needs to say and do to satisfy them.

Otherwise, the conflict continues because Tori will always believe that Socrates is after a browner nose, never giving the benefit of the doubt because it would be too meta to do so.

[Tori]

You may have generalized too much. So far, it's all been "mean old Tori." I offered my point of view on the situation, and willing to meet you more than halfway on this, and be a much nicer character. I don't think, especially if we are trying to resolve IC problems OOC, that requesting, not demanding a little accommodation for Tori is not unreasonable.

So far, to Tori, Socrates has done little but lecture her, and report her for using catnip. There's not much room for doubt, especially to a cat bred for battle and assassination. If I missed something positive in there, please point it out, it might be a good starting point to establish some good will. I pointed out a few, very simple, and possibly deserved things Socrates could do to make things a little easier.

One way or another, I'm taking a lot of the salt out of my character, but I do not think my requests are unreasonable, or too demanding. He was wrong about the catnip, and whether he admits it, or continues to lecture the cats, I'm still going to play her as a nicer character.

[Renekin Skywalker]

You'll have to understand that, this being the second time you've offered a nicer Tori, and the third time the game has gone down the pits, if I'm somewhat skeptical. I am, however, more than willing top give you the benefit of the doubt.

Also, while Socrates has been lecturing them on good behaviour, let us not forget that Tori and Janxi have been quite rude and cruel, and threatening to him on a regular basis. And sometimes not even to his face. Tori even went so far as to curse at Socrates for not laughing at Janxi being crass. Seriously. So, you're not in any better position to say mean old Socrates.

In fact, things were going quite well until that point. So, while Socrates lectures may be frustrating, he is in an environment with people that think he should laugh at inappropriate jokes because he's not as good as the joker. You'll understand that I remain skeptical.