OOC

[Tori]

And a third one. Hello Kitty Tori never leaves home without her trusty Kalashnikov!

[lwcoyote]

Heyos

As for ordering humans, she was the team entryman, and knew no others, including her larger partner, as qualified to hit a door. It was her expertise, and she would make sure it was done right, even at the expense of a human ego of lower rank. She was just delegating position from her second-best role. Goal one was staying alive.

Lets hit the breaks here a little, Tori. the CS are very, very heavily human-centric, and very, very speciest. A human in the military of the CS would certainly find it odd to be under the orders of a NON human.

Keep in mind too that it was a silent, in the head musing, not spoken out. It seems to me that Martin (the character) has his countries speciest leanings under better control than is typical. There was no reason to jump down his throat over it.

I realize Im just a player here, but I have to speak up. I respect your writing ability, and your knowledge, but the attitude of taking slight where none is intended is very, very, VERY aggrivating and tiring. I understand there *may* have been issues in the past, but it really seems, from what Ive experianced thus far, that its turning into a persecution-complex. Lighten up and chill, please.

If my post results in some sort of moderator action, so be it.

[Renekin Skywalker]

What's really interesting is that they continue insulting Socrates, even though that character has long ago left the game.

[Tori]

He made a pair of enemies for life, what can I say? But it's been a good long time since he's been brought up. I don't think we've referenced him in over a couple of months, really. We're also giving Martin a fair chance.

I guess my concern is that Martin is of a bit of a lower rank, just by one step I suppose. But Tori did not like being told to run, and did not really care for him telling her where to hide. He may have been trying to be helpful, but she's an experienced swamp fighter now, and would know a good hide from a bad. It was the sort of approach Socrates took placing himself over the cats even though he had lesser training and the same rank. I hope you both can see how she might see it as unneeded and somewhat condescending. If I bristle too much, it is only because I remember that bit of the game all too well, and don't want it coming back to "Shut up cat."

What I experienced talking with Seals, and had several friends in special warfare, was that generally people relied on experience. The master diver would lead a dive, for instance, if an officer was less experienced. The most qualified jumper would take charge on a jump. It wasn't personal, or a slight. Tori does point work and is the entryman for the team, plus she's also from the Navy. The CS navy guidebook said that in the Navy, animals are regarded on a very similar footing as humans, but not quite equal. She would defer to Nike in matters of tracking or magic combat in much the same way. She would defer to Kai in matters of military intel, communications or on a B&E. She would even defer to martin when it came to psionic combat in a heartbeat. Janxi would get the nod on land vehicles, heavy weapons and sniping. It just strikes me as realistic roleplay. She's going to be a SEAL first and an animal second (Pun intended), and unlike a dogboy, has a feline sense of superiority. I guess she realized Dr. Bradford created her and her partner to be the ultimate weapons, and better than human. It makes her arrogant at times, but she'll never step on her officers, whom she likes and respects. Plus she has natural feline smugness. If you've ever owned a cat, you realize that a feline really regards itself on the same level as a human, if not maybe a little higher. "Dogs have owners, cats have staff" is a popular saying for a reason. On the other hand, she is coming to see the team as a clowder of worthy peers, and I would even venture to say, friends.

That said, I accept no slight was offered and apologize to Renegade. You get rubbed wrong and my reaction was to cringe and dig in. Sorry about that. Lately, I've enjoyed the RP and thought there was a bond forming.

I'm also sorry to Coyote. I mused back, but only because I've thought there was some unwarranted musings of similar tone in the past. We're over that now, and moving on to a better element of this campaign than we've had in the past. I certainly will keep my commentary under control from now on, with no caveat or stipulation.

In short, let's kick some rat ass!

[Renekin Skywalker]

"I want to keep twisting the knife, becuase I think it's funny."

Or

"Yes, it's time I grew up got over it, since the PC's gone and no longer causing the insults I felt were happening."

A lot of things you could say.

[lwcoyote]

Alright Ren, I really dont think escalating the situation is the answer. Tori gave a reason for her response AND APOLOGIZED. Seriously, drop it. Don't be a dick about it.

[Tori]

OK, how about this:

The last post about Socrates was « Reply #151 on May 8, 2011, 9:08am ». I just poured through the archive to find it. As I recall, you were not even playing in the group at that time. So tell me again how I'm twisting the knife?

[Renekin Skywalker]

Who's Muttley, then?

[Tori]

Seriously? This is what your beef is about? Oh man, you just made my day! Muttley is a cartoon character known for his scornful laugh. Renegade? I've had the day from hell. I won't go into details, but thanks for giving me a real honest-to-god LOL moment. Play this video:



That's what the cats laugh like, although slightly more feminine.

Be forewarned, there is a second character called Precious Pup with an identical laugh. We are also not referring to Socrates if we reference Precious.



I really thought everyone in the world knew Muttley and his laugh. I'm sorry you thought we were continuing to ridicule Socrates. That got old a long time ago. Rest assured, that was not my intention.

[dakota]

Okay, hows this sound...

I'll consider picking things back up when this bullsh!t squabbling ends once and for all.

[Tori]

Dunno just what else to tell you man. I aired some concerns when Renegade rejoined about his character, but said, "nah, let's just play." I was a little cross about some things that seemed like more of the same, but took it too far and apologized. It was fun for a while and I thought we were coming together nicely.

At this point, I just want to play. As long as my character isn't getting bossed around, I'm fine. As long as I'm not getting blamed for being a jerk by quoting cartoon characters, I have nothing to complain about.

Renegade, I could not be more contrite at this point. I really did not want to fuel another feud with you. Can we please put this behind us and go on with what was turning into a highly fun game?

[Janxi]

Hold up bro with that contrition. We've always been the ones offering an apology, but never once have we received one. Allow me to make my case.

When Jer left, the team was admittedly small, but functional. We've got two more great players largely through my brother's efforts, and were actually going somewhere cool with this game. Then, there's more strife between Alan and Jer. That's pretty typical, but when he returned, we were told it wasn't going to be more of the same. It's been more of the same.

In Post 283, he brashly tells us not to panic but warns of a phantom impending attack after the characters at the time cleared the swamp.

Post 281 was, "Martin paused, as Tori spoke. After a second, he answered, "You don't want me near water too much. Can't you run?"

As he hefted the PB Cannon over his shoulder, he broke into a trot. "

Now if we were playing strictly in character, we would have let him run off into the swamp and into a booby trap or an ambush. I think he would have run across America like Forrest Gump. "Can't you run?" That was not nice, but we said, "Whatever."

In post 372, Martin "pointed out useful watchpoints for the cats' benefit." Pointed like we were the help. The cats are now the senior non-coms on the team, trained special operations warriors and on top of that, cats. You may really have tried to help, but it seemed bossy, condescending, and insulting to highly trained warriors. Again, we shook our heads and said a lower ranked person shouldn't boss around the higher rank, but we didn't turn it into a hazing like we would with Socrates.

Finally, last week, Socrates, err martin's narrative implied that cats shouldn't boss humans. We've been on this mission for nearly three years with our characters. We've got rank and experience on our side, plus some wicked training! Nobody else but Renegade had a problem.

Then when Coyote tried to be peacemaker, Renegade gets pissed because we, playing animals, adopt the mannerisms of some cartoon characters? Let me tell you boyo, if we were trying to be dicks, we'd be mocking Martin for running out into the woods willy nilly, and would communicate with him "helpfully" by pointing and snapping our fingers. We'd give him a nickname and treat him like Socrates. We'd narrate how Martin lost our respect from the word go, and be as bitchy as ever.

We're not doing that, because we're trying here. We're not beating on a long-gone character because we don't like you as a player, we'd just bash your new character. These cats don't pull punches. I actually thought we were making real progress until last week and Martin's post with the Socra-tese narrative about animals ordering humans. My mistake.

I put up a post the other day and took it down because it was too bitchy. I am sorry I did. I have a real problem with Renegade retiring Socrates because of his perception of bullying only to return with a character that's akin to a Sith lord. He's as well trained as the cats, and to quote Mickey from "Rocky" (the movie not the flying squirrel), he eats lightning and craps thunder. In no book owned by my brother or me, does a Psi trooper have skills and training akin to a Spec-Ops trooper plus have the lightning to boot. Alan said he thought the character a little hinky when Jer returned, but we just wanted to play. Now it seems like Alan was right. Jer can't be the boss with a dog, so he's trying again with a human.

Alan even apologized once. I don't know what else he can do to be a good citizen. It's never enough for Jer, and he's never wrong. He's never apologized once throughout these three years of friction no matter what we say or do. We say we'll improve, and we get to another point like this. How often was he wrong IC? How often OOC? And nothing. All he had to say was, "Wow, I didn't know that was a cartoon dog with a world recognized laugh." By the way, I know me and Alan are old and watched too much TV as kids, but REALLY? You had no idea we were just having some fun with some cartoon characters? You REALLY think it's all about you that much? I think Jer just wants to be the victim until he gets his way.

If this bullshit squabbling continues, and the game doesn't, then maybe it's for the best. Dakota, you promised to take steps to make sure Socrates 2.0 didn't come to pass, and now we're here. If you could look me in the eye, I'd let you explain how pointing us to hiding spots, telling us, "Can't you run" and the narrative about animals ordering humans was not more Socrates-ness.

We've been courteous and let a lot of it go with only mild sternness. We did not haze him like we did with Socrates, but I stand by my statements. We need some real change. If anyone has something beyond "Cats shut up," I'll listen. If not, hey, I'll take my ball and go home.

[Red Fang]

I'm new here and probably have no say what so ever in this BUT I'm going to say it anyways. Can we just play the damn game, all this bickering is the reason I quit rping in the first place.
We as rpers haven't gotten past the point where we have to slam one another either in a characters thought process or OOC? Really?
Get over it and grow up

[Renekin Skywalker]

Too clear the air, then: I don't know where the idea came out that I was out to get you both. You seemed very convinced of it, regardless of the reality of the situation, or that people, in and out of the game, told you otherwise. So, in all honesty, until you both understand that I was never actually out to get you, and I was really just suffering under and responding to the constant brutal abuse you both fixated on me, this isn't going to end.

Even if I was out to get you, your continued behaviour was inappropriate. Regardless of when you actually stoppped, that you continued to bash Socrates, even after I had left the game gives little room for pity for your behaviour, and apathy to your rationalizations.

As for how you choose to respect players, Socrates was the experienced, long-range tracker. Just because he wasn't trained as a marine does not make him less than a good soldier. Also, since you claim to recognize experience over training, his actual training houldn't have mattered, him being better experienced. So, you know, I don't buy that reason for not respecting Socrates.

Now, if it's because I outed your cats' drug/catnip addicition in a fashion you didn't want, that happens. You're not writing the script for the game, so people sometimes pull things on you that you don't expect. That you made it so obvious makes me wonder if maybe you were looking for someone to do it.

Sure we got off on the wrong foot, but where I was, as Socrates, trying to step back from the fighting, the pair of you were ramping it up. So, again, little pity from me.

This persucetion accusation that you have repeatedly levelled against me is, in the end, nothing more than a fabrication and a war of popularity. And one that seems to kill the fun for everyone.

[Tori]

Fine I love Socrates. I'd give him a bone and make him best man at Tori's wedding. He was a great character that we were unfair to him because we got off on the wrong foot.

We're the jerks, again. We're sorry. I'm with Redfang. I just want to play the damn game. And no Sis, we're not giving him the satisfaction of running us off.

Popularity or not, I love this game, I love my character and am quite fond of the players, from Mierin on down. Dakota does a hell of a job as GM, so for the latest time, I swallow my pride, admit defeat, and offer myself up for Renegade's scorn. I'm licked.

Now please, I've acknowledged my eternal meanness to socrates and accept my jerkiness has no bounds. Can we please just get back to the game? This is supposed to be my source of stress relief, not my stressor.