OOC

[Tori]

Here's the influence of the little kitties singing: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRajfty4OuU&feature=related

Once again, I wish everyone in this campaign would watch Generation Kill! It's the best mini-series I've ever seen.

[Tori]

More GK goodness: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLAIKjT7y8

[Mierin]

Are Richardson and Autum still part of the game? Neither of them have posted since sometime in Feb and it seems like daks is waiting for them to post. (if I am wrong, daks, let me know)

If you are, please post. If you aren't, please let us know so we can keep the game going.
Thank you

[dakota]

Dome and Sasq has dropped out. Will work out their pc's in coming post

And actually, I'm waiting for anyone besides Sam and Tori to post

[Renekin Skywalker]

I can handle that.

[Renekin Skywalker]

Alright. I'm done with this. Someone else can be the cats punching bag.

[Tori]

My personal response to Dakota sacking the game. I've sent private messages to Dome and Sasq.

You know Dakota? Yeah, I am going to say we were awful IC to Socrates. And I will gladly shoulder some blame. But why are we entirely to blame? Socrates always came off as a cocky know-it-all, who though being the same rank as the cats, thought he knew so much better than we did. He'd order us around, give us bad information, and generally treated us LIKE SHIT. Then, when he was proved wrong, again and again, he never had the sense to apologize and give the cats the respect they deserved. He treated them like children, despite the cats having the same rank, and more advanced training.

My case in point was the rescue of Shep. Socrates turned around, looked at Tori and said, "It's an alligator. As navy cats, you should know that." Now not only was he wrong, but turned it into a teaching moment, demeaning the cats. We contemplated leaving him swimming in the water while we made the rescue without him. Instead we took him along, despite his stubborn insistence on going it alone. When we were done, he could have said, "I'm sorry. You all did pretty well, and I was wrong to lecture you and try to go it alone. Good planning and execution." We didn't even expect it, just hoped for him to refrain from lecturing us again or to argue against the cats' every suggestion merely to be contradictory. The lecture continued.

Liz made it a point to try to teach Socrates about explosives. Instead, he disregarded her lesson and again tried to one-up Janxi by including grenades. I see no evidence of demo on his character sheet.

Socrates has not apologized for any of the haughty things he has said or done to the cats since the mission began. Again and again, they constantly prove themselves to be loyal members of the team, with great training and experience to draw upon.

Renegade can not make himself out to be the victim time and again. He cannot beg us to stop persecuting his character, while continuing to treat the cats like stepchildren. They are specforce and of the same rank. If he is going to treat the cats like this, he has only himself to blame when his character gets hated. We've reached out to him in sincere efforts, both with the demo lesson, and at Abe's cabin, where we, in the interest of team unity, were actually willing to defer to him. Rather than say thanks, he lectured the cats in his usual condescending tone. Both offers were withdrawn due to lack of appreciation and continual marginalization of the cats.

Frankly, we're sick of it, sick of his OOC complaints of victimization, and if this were to continue, we were going to opt out of the next mission. The definition of insanity is repeating a behavior and expecting a different result. Scornful rebukes and marginalization of the cats is only going to keep them in a perpetually angry state. He would not have changed the cats no matter how he whined OOC unless he changed IC and treated them as peers.

As for Dome and Sasq, I am sorry about that. I can only say the Richardson character seemed to have much of the same grievances with Socrates as the cats. This is referring to the departure from Abe's cabin. Socrates may have a high IQ on his character sheet, but that does not make him a leader or mean all his decisions are smart or make tactical sense. I can't justify a mutant animal taking a pedantic approach toward any coalition human, or an infantry soldier's condescensions toward special forces troops. Yeah, we bitched the loudest, but I cannot imagine, real world Navy SEALS and Marine Recon personnel would tolerate Socrates manner from a person of their own rank and lesser training without standing up for themselves. Sorry Dome and Sasq got sick of it all. That was unintentional.

This is food for thought, and not entirely a rebuke of your criticisms, but we are asking you to see this from our perspective, to a degree. I know you and Renegade go way back, and you have no clue who me and Liz are. Still, I believe we have some valid complaints. Think it over, and see if maybe you see at least some of this our way.

As for you, Renegade, you're a bad player. I'm quitting this game, and I would imagine Liz will be calling me to say pretty much the same thing. Keep your self-righteous little puppy and keep playing in the swamp. Me myself, I'm out of any game you participate in. If you cannot solve a dispute IC, then find a new hobby besides RPing. If all your characters are like Soc, I see this happening again and again.

Dakota, carry on without us.

Final action: After recovering the body, Tori rolls into the water and swims away without so much as a trail of bubbles.

[Janxi]

Dear Dakota:

What Alan said goes double for me.

I really tried to be nice to Socrates and make allowances for him. Look, I'm not a Navy Seal or a gun toting marine. But if anyone talked to me like that, army or no, I'd slap the shit out of him. You earn respect. You don't get it automatically. And if you constantly disrespect for no reason, I'm going to kick your teeth out.

I refer specifically to post 25 of Ch. 6. Dark Heart of the Swamp. Janxi made one final appeal for sanity. Not even respect, just to squash the beef for good. Agree to dislike but coexist, whatever. I tried hard to get this done. Instead of RPing it out, or hearing her appeal over the radio, we get a very arrogant ooc message:

"Do note that Socrates was under water during Janxi's lecture. Seeing as how Shep was drowning, and all. "

Do note what Tori said. We could have left Socrates floundering in the swamp fighting alligators, but we took him along because it was the right thing to do. We rescued Shep. That was me and Alan, not anything Renegade did. Sam could have done the swim for all we cared. Alan specifically made it a point to include Socrates. And the guy still tried dodging.

Did we ignore Shep IC, when told to stop riding Socrates? Yeah. Why? The cats are tired of getting stepped on by Socrates. He kicks us, nothing is said. We kick back, we're told to shut up. This is some unfair and arbitrary GMing.

Your Jer is not a good RPer. Maybe he is better in other games, but in a military game, one corporal does not tell another corporal what to do. Alan said we listen to sergeants, and officers. Jer's ideas have been often, and usually wrong, but he is so thick headed, he can't accept when the cats do the right thing, like with the rescue.

Furthermore, if we left this rescue to Socrates, Shep would be dead, and Socrates would be close to, if not dead himself. We don't want a "Good kitty." But we don't want to keep getting shouted at and lectured by Socrates about stupid shit.

And Jer? You don't need to be blaming Alan, you ought to thank him. I said I would bust you in the mouth about 20 times, starting with the nip snitching, ending with the alligator comment. Alan has a rule, that if a party implodes and attacks itself, the game is a failure. He's sacked a lot of games already just because someone groped my character and I smacked the tool. I kept it together. I wanted to have Janxi stab Soc at Abe's cabin. Thank my little brother for saying that would ruin the game. His "no fragging" rule...

You also should think Mierin. When you started on the alligator bit, I called Alan at his office, and said Janxi was going to neuter Socrates. Take out her marine knife, crack your armor and cut. Alan was right about there with me, but he said he'd talk to Mierin, and she reined him in. Then he called and reined me in.

If we continue with this game, we need some fair GMing. Not just "Cats, leave the dog alone." He's been asking for a lot, even as we've made so many advances to placate him. I'm with Alan. He's a BAD RPer, and if we continue, I'd prefer to continue without Renegade and Socrates. If a real compromise is on the table, I'll hear it. Otherwise, if it's more "Cats, shut up," I'm out too. And that's that.

[Janxi]

I'm just sick of being the bad guy, and the obnoxious dog taking his beef OOC and playing the victim. Bad form! And he has the walnuts to list himself as "alternate CSOG GM?" I have a problem with that, too.

[dakota]

the alt GM was given by me because he had GM'ed when I was away.

after the holiday weekend, I'll talk to the remaining player and decide how we proceed from here, but contrary to comments I've received, I have NOT terminated this game

[Tori]

I love my character and know Liz loves hers. We would certainly like to continue to play them. I would be willing to include Renegade in the game if he agreed to treat the cats as equals rather than subordinates and frankly, like children. We agree to treat others like they treat us. I think our history with these characters bears this out.

That said, I think you can look at our sheets and know, that if you introduced an NPC officer that treated the cats this poorly, we would take steps to eliminate him, meaning we'd frag him in the latrine, shoot him in the field or sabotage his parachute on a combat drop. If Socrates stays in the game and interaction continues as it has before, we will not assault another PC, even though, playing our characters in character, they probably should. We will continue to verbally attack him, however. This is, unless Sam and Shep intervene and point out Socrates has badly exceeded his authority. The cats will probably not respond to "Shut up and leave Socrates alone, you shagcats" any more than before the shutdown. It's not right to blame them when Socrates has exceeded his military authority time and again, and we respond in-character.

If we continue without Socrates, I am okay with that, too. Other than growing somewhat rebellious to Shep for his rebukes of their treatment of Socrates, the cats have a respect, admiration, and sense of kinship with Shep (what is his rank, anyhow?) and especially Sam. If Mierin doesn't want to continue, then thanks for a good game, Dakota. It's been a fun couple of years, other than Socrates and his condescending ways, and the constant rebukes when we respond in-kind and in-character.

I'd hope either way, Dome and Sasq would rejoin us. I will leave the game, with no ill will toward you, Dakota, if IC problems are taken OOC again. I play games for fun. They stop being fun when they are taken OOC. Period. Renegade may not respond that we ruined his fun when he brought this on himself by exceeding his authority, condescending the cats, and lording over them, criticizing them and treating them like something he dropped in the yard and scrapped off his boot.

Lastly, I'd prefer waiting on Dakota to return from being away. Players choose their GM's. In doing so, the player cedes authority to the GM to run the game appropriately. We did this with Dakota, but not with Renegade. If the game is on hold a week or so, those are the breaks. I'm happy to wait, rather than play with a GM I never agreed to play with.

[dakota]

When we continue, I will write Socrates out of the game as I did Autumn and Richardson. Shep is actually Warrant Officer Carson Trassk, but is referred to as Specialist rather than W.O.

[Tori]

That's fine by me. Thanks. By Naval Custom, Tori will formally address Shep as "Mr. Trassk," but in the field, he's still "Shep."

[Tori]

I'd also like to continue with Renegade, as long as he addresses our concerns and this doesn't continue to be a problem.

[Renekin Skywalker]

Socrates is out.

Regardless of how people view my gaming, it wasn't my style that's driving players away.

I should also add that I have no interest in a game where it's players set out to personally attack and attempt to demoralize me, then turn around And say that if I just do the things they want, then everything will be OK.